In the United States, Catholic priests have been appearing for months on the country's major podcasts, those that bring together millions of viewers distanced from the Church and accustomed to conversations lasting three or four hours without interruption. The exorcist Chad Ripperger has appeared twice on the program of former military officer Shawn Ryan, in March and in July, to speak of possessions, the Antichrist, and diabolical attacks on the family. In September, Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, former prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, dedicated two lengthy episodes in the same space to traversing the Old and New Testament, praying the rosary before the cameras and gifting the host an image of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

That phenomenon has crossed the Atlantic. Pedro Buerbaum, whose program WORLDCA$T has found an audience among young Spanish people with diverse interviews, has dedicated his episode 301 to a 76-year-old priest who speaks of Vatican Freemasonry, conclaves, and the death of a Pope. For two hours, without interruption or haste, Father Charles Theodore Murr, an American who lived in Rome during the most turbulent years of the post-conciliar period, recounted with Mexican-inflected Spanish seasoned with humor and unusual candor for a clergyman what he witnessed alongside Archbishop Édouard Gagnon: the investigation commissioned by Paul VI into Masonic infiltration in the Curia, three car journeys to the Patio of San Damaso with a dossier that no Pope was willing to execute, and the night John Paul I died, barely two hours after a tempestuous audience with Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio.

Murr, who today lives retired in Andalusia amid wheat fields and celebrates traditional Mass daily, is the author of Murder in the 33rd Degree: The Gagnon Investigation into Vatican Freemasonry, a book that was born, as he explains, from a simple reckoning: no one in his family had lived beyond seventy-two years, and he was the last living witness.

An intern at the Information Office

The priest arrived at the Vatican almost by chance. He was living at the Mexican College in Rome when he met Monsignor Mario Marini, recently arrived from Chihuahua and summoned by Paul VI to the Secretariat of State. From that friendship, « nearly of blood », emerged a modest position in the Vatican Information Office that, without his knowing it, opened every door for him.

« I knew certain men, because it was a man's world, of course, who didn't quite convince me of their holiness. Others did. I saw them as very worldly, very much of the spirit of the world, excessively so. And there were others who were truly saints. What was certain is that all were intelligent; there were no fools. But there was everything: men of sanctity and spiritual depth and men whose very faith one doubted. Only God knows. But it greatly changed my perception of the priesthood ».

Before getting into the matter, Murr makes his intention clear: « I love the Catholic Church, let there be no doubt about it. What I say is not criticism for its own sake. I criticize because I love it. We worked out of love for the Church, to improve it, to free it from some internal enemies ».

Bugnini's papers

According to his account, the origin of everything was an envelope delivered in 1974 to Cardinal Dino Staffa, prefect of the Apostolic Signatura. It contained documents identifying Monsignor Annibale Bugnini, architect of the liturgical reform, as a Freemason.

« Think about what that means. If it was true that he was a Mason, it means that the one inventing the new Mass was more Mason than Catholic. His philosophy, his motivation behind all the changes was liberty, equality, fraternity, rather than Christ and the Gospel. And in my personal opinion, the reason most of our churches are empty is because we have lost the sacred. Staffa, who was no fool, called Interpol and various investigative bodies to see if the documents were authentic. And yes, they were authentic ».

Staffa and Cardinal Silvio Oddi brought the documentation to Paul VI. The Substitute Giovanni Benelli examined it anew and proposed a complete review of the Curia, « from A to Z », conducted by a Canadian canonist of proven integrity: Édouard Gagnon. Bugnini was sent as nuncio to Iran, one of those promotions the Vatican reserves for those it wishes to remove from the scene. « Nuncio in Iran: he must have been very good at cards, because there's nothing to do during the day, » Murr quips.

Gagnon, the man who knew more than the Holy Spirit

The investigation was known to all. In Rome, the « in poor taste » jest circulated that Gagnon knew more than the Holy Spirit. He interviewed some one thousand employees one by one, and in 1977, the threats began.

« He received death threats, they broke down the doors to his room at the Canadian College, they broke into his Vatican office to steal documents. Some at the Vatican considered Gagnon very dangerous to their careers. That's the word: career. Not only politicians think about careers; clergy do too: rising, rising, rising, from bishop to archbishop, from archbishop to cardinal, and from cardinal, who knows, Pope. He wasn't afraid of dying; he wasn't that kind of man. He was afraid of not finishing his investigation ».

Marini offered him during dinner to move in with them, and Gagnon accepted after a day or two. From then on, they shared house, Mass, and table.

Baggio, the Congregation for Bishops, and the Bank

According to Murr, two fronts concentrated Masonic penetration. The first was the Congregation for Bishops, presided over by Cardinal Sebastiano Baggio, « a very astute man; I don't say intelligent, I say astute ».

« He was in charge of appointing all the bishops in the world. Can you imagine what that is? Every bishop had to submit his resignation at seventy-five. At seventy-five and one day, Baggio already had the new bishop, and he was liberal; every now and then a conservative, to throw a bone to the dogs, but mostly liberals, liberals, liberals. We had two thousand years of history. How can you not recognize where you come from? It's like not recognizing your parents, your grandparents, your great-grandparents. The world started when I was born: what naïveté ».

The second was finances. The Propaganda Due lodge would have set out to sink the Institute for the Works of Religion from within, taking advantage of the naïveté of its president, Archbishop Paul Marcinkus, « not a bad man, rather a foolish man », an enthusiast of golf, cigars, and the dolce vita, who signed guarantee letters to those he believed were his friends. Gagnon documented everything before the scandal broke.

« Guard them for my successor »

In 1978, after three years of work, Gagnon asked Murr to take him to the Vatican to deliver the report to Paul VI. The Pope had just lost his childhood friend Aldo Moro, kidnapped and murdered by the Red Brigades, and had sunk into profound sadness.

« He arrived with him and said: 'Holy Father, what you entrusted to me three years ago is complete.' He gave him all the documents, and the Pope handed them back to him by pushing them across his desk. 'I cannot, I cannot. Guard them for my successor. I cannot.' Gagnon reached the car, I was waiting for him, somewhat angry, very discouraged, and as he drove through the Vatican gardens he explained to me what had happened ».

Paul VI died on August 6. In the conclave, Murr describes three names: Cardinal Giuseppe Siri of Genoa; Baggio himself, who would have spent the summer visiting cardinals in Africa and Asia whose appointments he had personally promoted; and Benelli. Seeing Baggio's support grow, Benelli produced « like a magician pulling a rabbit from a hat » the name of the Patriarch of Venice, Albino Luciani.

John Paul I's final audience

Benelli, who knew the content of the report, asked the new Pope to call Gagnon. Murr took him to San Damaso for the second time. John Paul I read the dossier and its summary of measures: immediately remove the Prefect of Bishops and replace Marcinkus. He offered Benelli the Secretariat of State in place of Cardinal Jean Villot, also identified as a Mason, and Benelli set one condition: remove Baggio by sending him to Venice. What follows is the most chilling passage of the interview.

« Pope John Paul I called Cardinal Baggio to an audience and Baggio told him, I don't know how many times, but at least twice, that he was busy. Peter, I ask you: if the Pope of Rome calls you and says 'I want to speak with you,' do you answer 'Your Holiness, I'm busy'? Finally the Pope, after a month, picked up the phone: 'I want to see you tomorrow.' 'No, Your Holiness, I'm busy, bishops are coming from different parts.' 'Very well. Then I'll see you this evening, at eight. Are you busy at eight in the evening? With what? Where? With whom? Ah, you're free. Perfect, I'm expecting you at eight' ».

« The Pope says to him: 'Eminence, we have decided to send you to Venice, our own archdiocese, which is vacant because they elected me Pope. It is an honor.' 'No, I will not go.' 'What do you mean you won't go?' 'I won't go. This is all a plot against me, Father.' And he started raising his voice. The Swiss Guard, outside the door, heard a very loud voice shouting and a heated exchange between the two. Baggio left very angry and, boom, slammed the door. It was just after nine at night. Two hours later, I believe, the Pope was dead ».

At seven-thirty in the morning a seminarian friend, Luis Fernando, pounded on Murr's door with the news. The priest initially thought he was speaking of Paul VI.

« I immediately went to Gagnon's room, knocked on Marini's door, and we were all in our pajamas listening to the news, unable to believe it, looking at each other. But we knew who was behind all of it, and not for a moment did we buy the idea of a heart attack. There are coincidences in life, but that was too much of a coincidence ».

The next day, walking through a park near the house, Murr asked Gagnon point-blank if the Pope had died of natural causes, been killed, or taken his own life.

« And Gagnon, being very careful about what he said and what he didn't say, answered me: 'Carlitos, there are many ways to kill a man. There are many ways to provoke a heart attack. There are many ways to kill a man.' With that, he answered everything for me ».

Murr further emphasizes two details that fueled suspicions at the time: the contradictory official accounts of the discovery of the body, which shifted from the Imitation of Christ to papers about changes in the Curia, and the disappearance of the dossier Gagnon had delivered to the Pope. « Many things mysteriously vanish that way, » he summarizes.

John Paul II and the escape to Colombia

With Karol Wojtyła elected, Benelli insisted again. Three or four months passed before the Polish Pope received Gagnon, and Murr drove with a copy of the report for the third time. The holy pontiff listened, received the papers, and changed nothing; his priority was travel and preaching the Gospel.

« After an hour he returned very angry, his face red, his teeth clenched. He got in the car. 'Excellency, how did it go?' 'Carlos, what are you doing the day after tomorrow? I need you to take me to the airport. I'm going to Colombia, to the jungle, to preach the Sacred Heart of our Lord. Enough of this. I'm wasting my life here on useless things with ungrateful men.' He told the Pope three things: who Baggio was and why he had to change him immediately; that a tremendous scandal was about to erupt at the Vatican Bank; and third: 'Your Holiness, I discovered a plot to kill you.' And do you know what he answered? 'Who would want to kill the Pope of Rome?' ».

Gagnon left with a small suitcase. Shortly after, the Ambrosiano Bank scandal erupted, banker Roberto Calvi was found hanged beneath the Blackfriars Bridge in London, and Cardinal John Krol of Philadelphia had to ask one million dollars from each of a hundred American benefactors to save the Vatican from bankruptcy. After the attack in St. Peter's Square, Murr relates, the first thing John Paul II requested upon recovering was that they find Gagnon. The Canadian returned to Rome, was made a cardinal, and Benelli, who had finally accepted the Secretariat of State on the same condition of removing Baggio, suddenly died in Florence at sixty-one years old. « They all die that way, » the priest adds.

From Baggio to Prevost

The final part of the conversation jumps nearly half a century and connects that silent war with the Church today. Murr, without mincing words, maintains that Benedict XVI was forced to resign and that the worldwide episcopate has been remade since then following the same pattern he witnessed in the seventies.

« Today all of that is repeating itself. After Pope Benedict's resignation, which was forced, forced by men in the Vatican, they began to remake the episcopate throughout the world. The new bishops, all liberals. And who was the last one in charge of the Congregation for Bishops? Robert Prevost of Chicago, Cardinal Prevost, who came to be called Pope Leo. There is a very great conflict, a war being waged within the Church, that could have happened with Paul VI and with John Paul II, but it is happening today, with a majoritarian mentality of liberal bishops changing the Church from within ».

When Buerbaum asks if he truly believes there are ill intentions within the Vatican, or simply different approaches, the priest does not hesitate: « I believe there truly are ill intentions. Yes, really ». Regarding Francis, he merely says that the things he taught, said, and did « are inexplicable », and that his successor, « his disciple », will follow the same path.

In his words, however, there is no trace of despair:

« How will it end? I know one thing: Christ will win. I have His word that He will be with the Church until the end of time. How will the salvation of this Church in crisis come? I don't know, I don't know, but I know it will be remedied. That is called, I believe, faith. And I have faith in Christ, that my Christ is no liar. What He said will be fulfilled. I live in that confidence, even though I see many things going very wrong ».

De Mattei's endorsement

Murr acknowledges that when he published the book, some priests accused him of inventing it all. A few months later, he received an email from historian Roberto de Mattei, who asked to write the foreword: « Because I know that everything you have in the book is true. I was a friend of Gagnon and Marini, and everything you say is what happened ».

The priest closes with a smile. He thought he would spend his last years in peace, with his daily Mass and his Andalusian wheat fields, and found himself living a more eventful life than he could have imagined. « I'm seventy-six years old, » he says, « but I'm the young fellow in the story ».